This post and co-blogger Lisen Stromberg’s post have been syndicated on BlogHer as “Point-Counterpoint: The War on Men.” Please feel free to engage in comments there as well.
Suzanne Venker’s recent article The War on Men sparked an uproar among feminists. But Venker’s ideas and upcoming book How to Choose a Husband (And Make Peace with Marriage) come as no surprise to me. Nor am I surprised by the responses Venker received for suggesting women’s angry attitudes, fueled by militant feminism, contribute to the trend of young men rejecting marriage.
the holy grail? as seen at Helzberg Diamonds
Venker references stats from the Pew Research Center that show, among other things, an increase in the percentage of women ages 18 to 34 who say marriage is one of their highest priorities and a simultaneous decrease in the percentage of men ages 18 to 34 espousing that value. This is a significant change since 1997 when young men and women were statistically equal on this measure. The result? A shortage of “marriageable men.”
How strange that feminists should find the concept of a “war on men” untenable when they so readily accept a “war on women.” I was in college in 1991 when Susan Faludi’s book Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women was published. Have you seen this book? It’s five inches thick. I carried the first edition tome around like a Bible and poured over every incident of resistance against women’s liberation Faludi reported.
It was around that same time I caused a stir in my creative writing class. I’d written a poem describing an observation about weddings: all the single women reach for the bouquet when it’s thrown. No matter what we might say about love and men and marriage, no matter what other paths we might choose, the truth comes out when those flowers are tossed. We all want love. We all reach for it.
An older classmate glared from across the writing circle. She lit into me about how not all women want to get married. Marriage is oppressive. Fish and a bicycle. ERA. The Feminine Mystique. I sat quietly through her tirade and thought to myself, “Okay, but given the choice, who doesn’t want a loving marriage? Deep down, most of us want to catch that bouquet!”
Eight years after Backlash, Faludi published Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man, arguing men are also in the cultural crosshairs. Then in 2008, Beyoncé confirmed my suspicions about marriage with her song Single Ladies. Its fast and furious chorus demands nothing short of a proposal: “If you liked it then you shoulda put a ring on it.”
Now the Pew Research Center presents hard data. Women still want to get married. Men used to, but these days not so much. Maybe Venker is on to something. Ladies, maybe we’re scaring men away or at the very least sending them mixed messages.
my skills make boys run, as seen at Target
Turn on the television or go to the movies and you’ll see “marriageable men” portrayed as either bumbling idiots or deplorable villains. Read columnists like Maureen Dowd rail against the “white male patriarchy” as if the past 40 years never happened. Walk through Target like I did this past summer and read the words emblazoned on girls’ t-shirts. “My Skills Make Boys Run” oozes cattiness, yet we expect these boys to someday meet our daughters at the marriage altar. Why would young men commit to marriage when the culture says women don’t even like them very much? Besides, sisters are doing it for themselves. According to Pew, women make up almost half the workforce and more women hold college degrees than men. The New York Times reports more than half of births to American women younger than age 30 occur outside marriage, with the glaring exception of college educated women who most often marry before having children. The NYT calls this difference a “new class divide” where marriage is a luxury afforded to the more educated. Sadly, a third of families headed by single mothers are in poverty, and they are four times more likely than married-couple families to be poor. That doesn’t sound like progress to me; that sounds like fallout from years of trashing the traditional family structure that protected many women and children across the socioeconomic spectrum.
You don’t have to be a feminist to believe women (and men) should be respected in real life and in the media. They should be free to pursue their education, dreams, and talents. They should be able to vote, own property, raise their children as they see fit, and leave abusive relationships. They should be paid equally for the same work. Yes, we still have to close the gap on that last one, but change is happening. According to Pew, among young workers ages 16 to 34 women’s earnings are now more than 90% of men’s.
Just as Venker recognizes a subculture of men who say they will never marry because “women aren’t women anymore,” I fear there is a subculture of women who will never quit fighting “the man.” The war has no end for them, regardless of how many victories are won. But women conquering oppression by oppressing men isn’t a solution. Many women (and men) want to be married. We are tired of fighting. We want equality, however we know equal doesn’t necessarily mean same—and that’s okay. There’s a lot of give and take between women and men, especially in healthy marriages. As Venker might say, it’s time we make peace with that.
Hello, I’m a 27 year old college educated software engineer, I’m athletic, active, I love swing dancing, mountain biking, skiing, etc. I’m currently dating a lovely girl, I take her out on dates, we do things together, I am a gentlemen and really enjoy treating her out. However, I have no plans on marrying her. I’m afraid of divorce and the financial ramifications of it, family court, lawyer and legal fees.
I find simply dating or co-habitating is fine, I don’t see any benefit that being married brings. I hope I change my mind one day, but it is unlikely. Most likely I will continue to date (over a series of years) serially one woman after another. It really breaks my heart to do this, I feel it is unfair to the women I date, but I accept that this is the world we live in and this is how dating and relationships work.
I feel that over 50 years ago, a man needed to prove his love to a woman, prove himself to her parents, dedicate his hard work and career to prove himself worthy to married/have sex with/be with a woman. NOW THAT WAS TRUE INCENTIVE FOR A MAN TO WORK HARD AND PROPOSE TO A WOMAN.
However now in 2013, all the work simply isn’t required, a man simply doesn’t need to commit/prove himself to a woman, again this breaks my heart a little but I acccept that for our generation in the 21th century, this is how dating/relationships are. Thank you for reading.
Thank you for your intelligent comment, Sander. Like you, this makes me a little sad, too.
My in-laws have been married for longer than 50 years. One of my aunts had been married for 53 years when she died last year. Three of my aunts and uncles will be celebrating 50th wedding anniversaries this year. The longevity of their relationships gives my husband and I courage; we’re only going on 18 years. I don’t want to get all religious on you, but I know for my marriage and the marriages of my relatives, none of it would be possible without God’s help.
There is a depth that comes to a relationship when you stay together even if, especially if, at times you disagree, dislike one another, or face difficult and unexpected life challenges. I hate that many in your generation feel that will not be possible for them. However, I know many young women and men who still want to be married and stay married. They’re out there, and they want to be the exceptions to the new norm of serial dating and co-habitation. If it’s something you sincerely want, don’t give up.
Another ‘marriageable guy’ opting out. Great career, education, income, home, credit, car, blah, blah, blah. Marriage and family building scares me to death! There is seriously nothing else in life I fear more. Laws that focus on marriage, divorce and domestic issues are loaded with the potential for fraud. No-fault divorce? If that phrase doesn’t frighten you, then what the heck will? Why would anyone get married if the divorce can be initiated by a cheating, bored or greedy spouse – with no recourse for the victim and a potential for cash and property rewards for the offending spouse?!?! What must it be like to see your life flushed down the toilet in that way?!? Heart breaking! No-fault divorce screams ‘no-commitment required’!
I used to get depressed and upset about it, but I’ve learned over time to just accept the ways things are and to make the best of my life. Marriage and dating have become a psychological, emotional, legal, financial and disease ridden minefield. This trend has been progressing for decades. One wrong move with the wrong person and BOOM – game over. I read an article the other day that focused on the ever growing grey divorce phenomenon. Scary!!! Don’t quote me, but I think I read that there’s a disturbing growth trend in the spread of STDs amongst those married and single who are over 40! Yikes!!! How many people that make it ‘til death’ these days are happy with one another at that point anyway? The roles between men and women have fundamentally changed and marriage will die a slow death as a result. In the meantime, millions of more lives will be severely impacted by divorce. Socially and economically, we’re heading for a “Logan’s Run” future for sure.
Hi, Count Me Out. I’m sorry I’m just reading this comment now. As you can see from our site, Lisen and I haven’t been writing here regularly, so I’ve been remiss to check things. I appreciate your comment.
No-fault divorce has wreaked havoc on marriage in this country. And I’ve seen the statistics about the spread of STDs in our older population that you mention. It’s very sad, but the prevalence of this sort of behavior doesn’t make it inevitable for everyone. See my response to Sander’s comment after yours. Like you said you have to make the best of your life. If marriage is something you really want and are willing to make the commitment, wait for it. Keep looking for women you can befriend who share your beliefs. Pray for discernment. No situation is risk-free. But I hope you won’t give up.
Aimee,
Very good article, and I am glad to find women that can empathize with men. Men that have lived between two and three decades in America have realized that women and society at large despise them. Our masculinity is constantly attacked, belittled, and disrespected, and instead we are encouraged to be more feminine and focus our attraction on independent career women. We are oppressors for desiring a feminine woman that is sweet, nurturing, supportive, loves and values us for who we are, and respects us. Should this description really be such an unattainable woman?
Suzanne Venker touched a nerve with me when she said, “men are tired”. It is true. On paper my life is fantastic: I make a very good living, have a great apartment in a wold-class city, i’m lucky enough to have a very tight-knit group of successful friends, I take exotic vacations, have multiple hobbies and interests, i’m athletic, and never have trouble getting a date. Despite all this, i’m incredibly unhappy, as I just can’t relate to the women i meet, and though i’m superficially attracted to them (sexually), I could not be any less attracted to who they are as people and their potential as life partners. Its exhausting to date so many women who consider men “unnecessary”, get angry about the “patriarchy”, and generally just consider men the enemy.
My options make me depressed: settle down with a feminist that will probably “liberate” herself 15-years down the line (ripping my life apart in the process), refuse to get married and try to build a fulfilling life without women, or move to a country where men are respected and valued. My hope in American women is fading fast. I would give anything for a sweet girl to prove me wrong.
DM, thank you for your comment. I hate that you’re unhappy and depressed about what you see as choices. It may look dismal, but I believe there are still American women out there who want to get married and stay married. Not all American women have a bone to pick with men. Don’t give up! I hope you find that sweet girl soon.
As a mother of two young men, this makes me sad. My sons are not against marriage, they talk about one day having a family and making me a “Grandma”. I think the reason they view marriage differently than some of the men is because they have been raised in a Christian home. Sure, my husband and I argue, we are two imperfect humans living in an imperfect world. However, my boys also see that we fight FOR our marriage. They see by example how to treat their future wives. They see by example how to be a good father one day. They see by example that without Christ at the center of a marriage, it is simply impossible to have a great relationship with your spouse. Marriage is scary when viewed from a worldly viewpoint. Marriage is sacred and joyful when viewed from a Christian viewpoint. Marriage is symbolic to how Christ loves His church.
I love it. Thank you, Anissa, for adding that to this conversation. You’ll make a wonderful “Grandma” some day
Aimee, thankyou for the article. Also, thankyou for being so gracious in your moderation of comments. This issue is one in which a lot of hurt is present. I only have to look at my younger brother, who became a father. He adores his son, and, at the young age of 27 has already parted with $68,000 in legal fees over the last 2 years so he can just see his son for 4 hours a week. I’ve sat in the gallery as the Family Law judge allows the most outrageous, unproven slurs to be tabled against him, and seen the same judge (I will not capitalise ‘j’) thunder at my brother when he tried to stand up for himself. He’s been called a rapist, a drug dealing bikie assassin (he doesn’t ride a motorbike, and doesn’t know any bikies) and the family court rolls with it.
I would really like to be married, personally. I’m only 34, I’m in a very well paid job, I am reasonably good looking (my brother did modelling for a while, and people mistake us for twins) and I’ve suffered an incredible amount in my life battling through some grueling personal challenges, so am very empathetic and understanding to those who also struggle. I do however, look at the fate of most of the men I know, and it’s heartbreaking. They don’t see their kids, and many of them come to tears when they talk about how they miss them. Their hearts are broken, irreparable; when they allow themselves to feel the grief of knowing their kids will never love them, and they will never be able to let the fountain of love they hold for their children have an expression in this life, it is too painful for them to bear. The suicide rate among divorced fathers is astounding, and I know of a few men who have ended their lives such was their grief at being permanently parted from their children.
There seems to be a widespread belief we men don’t, or can’t, feel love deeply and passionately for our children. That, when we’re separated, we promptly forget and move on. This is not the case in the men I know. In some of those men, the pain is so great I can sympathise with their decision to end their lives. One of my friends has told me he only keeps living because of the vain hope one day, one of his children may choose to know him. He’s a man with a kind, honest soul, who is not perfect but is certainly far from the less ideal examples of men.
I don’t know what the answer is, to be honest. I don’t know how we men can come back from this place. We have lost whatever war this is supposed to be, and for those of us who’re nobler and gentler, fighting women is not something we can do. We have no choice but to be gentlemen, and lose.
Getting married, or becoming a father, is the single most dangerous, risky thing a young man can do. It would be so nice to be able to walk that path with more safety than we currently can. History moves in cycles, and many of these cycles take a long time to complete. This cycle has, from a historical perspective, a long while yet to run. It will probably be another generation before enough people work out what we’re doing to each other, what the Family Court is doing, and the devastating death blow we’ve dealt to trust, marriage, and relationship is too high a price for the exaction of our grievances. Anger is not the answer. Returning wounds for wounding, is not the answer either. Will this cycle complete in my lifetime? I hope so. The sad thing is, I’ll be too old by the time it does to take advantage of it. I’ll just have to roll the dice and hope for the best.
Dash, thank you for your eloquent comment. I was moved and heartbroken reading it. Especially this part:
“I don’t know what the answer is, to be honest. I don’t know how we men can come back from this place. We have lost whatever war this is supposed to be, and for those of us who’re nobler and gentler, fighting women is not something we can do. We have no choice but to be gentlemen, and lose.”
What an excellent article Aimee! Worthy of sharing on FB!!
Thanks, Chris. I appreciate the share!
I live in the Netherlands, but would rather live in Germany or another eastern European country. The Netherlands have people that are rather arrogant including the women. In fact the Netherlands are one of the most feminine country in the world where a divorced man has to pay 12 years alimony and that is over 90% of marriages that go to family courts that are the most destructive institution towards society.
Well I am Caribbean born and raised man and of course you might understand why I have not such positive views on Dutch women together with Swedish and other Scandinavian women.
It is so difficult to please Dutch women when a Lithuanian woman is easier to please and have a conversation and respecting the role of a man.
Conclusion, it really depends which European country you are in.
Hi, all. I know people have strong feelings about this topic, but you have to follow the Community Guidelines for this site or your comments will be deleted. Here’s a link to the Guidelines: http://www.findinguncommonground.com/community-guidelines-2/
Thanks!
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Hi Aimee, nice article.
I am a young white 28 year old American man, and I have grown up in this misandric man-hating culture. I finally just got fed up with it and left America about 6 years ago, and moved to India/Asia. First thing I noticed was how different the women were. Indian women were actually FEMININE, ultra-feminine. And it was extremely attractive.
I know there may be a few good American women left, but they are almost impossible to find. Therefore, the majority of young men like me are either boycotting marriage, or just marrying foreign women from non-feminist countries.
Why would I want to get married in America, when the divorce system is so stacked against men? I’d like to see more women speak out against the unfair divorce system and how it totally screws men over.
Thanks
Good points, John. Divorce and the repercussions suffered in the courts (as well as in the personal lives of families) surely must play into this. You’ll notice Peter and Samuel bring up the same idea in their comments.
I don’t think all American women are man-hating or non-feminine. I hope my husband and male relatives and friends wouldn’t describe me that way, but I understand there’s a lot of anger surrounding this topic. Many men feel very slighted and disrespected in the culture.
Aimee,
please remember. Men like me are telling the lads what you women are like in the divorce courts. In my case 95% of assets were criminally sent to my ex. Women responses include “ha, ha ,ha”, “you deserved it”, “you must have been a terrible husband for the judge to do that to you”, “that everyone agrees proves you were a bad husband”, “I do not believe you that would never happen” etc.
The truth is that even when the BEST of husbands and fathers like me are criminally victimised virtually ALL MEN AND ALL WOMEN OPENLY SUPPORT THE CRIMINAL WOMAN OVER THE HONEST MAN.
Those who will support a criminal woman over an honest man will include his father, his brothers, his sons, his best mates, his best man, his male cousins. Why, you might ask, would the MEN support the criminal women? Well? If they do not the women in their life will MAKE THEIR LIFE HELL merely for standing up for truth and justice.
The pervasive man hatred is having the effect the Illuminati wish. It is making women so horrible that men do not want to be around you any more. I relocated to Germany where there is an endless supply of lovely eastern european women who treat me with the respect I have earned over my lifetime.
You women seem to have NO IDEA of the backlash coming your way. When us men tell you what is happening you just ignore us. Let me tell you…..we are less than EIGHT WEEKS away from a formal declaration of a state of war in Ireland and Australia that will make ACTS OF WAR against women LAWFUL.
And what do you women say about that “no, that could never happen, no man would actually declare a war, and if he did no other man would act on it”
You seem to not be taking notice of how many men are killing women of late. This year the reported incidents are running at about 4x that of last year. And if a man is GUARANTEED that he will not be jailed for any length of time having committed an act of war? I think we will see some men act. After all? Anders Breivik noted feminism as one of his major issues. He was raised by a feminist mother who removed his father and told him as a little boy she wisher he were dead.
Apparently a man KILLING 77 PEOPLE and telling you FEMINISM is partly the cause is not enough dead women yet. Apparently all the dead woman killed by angry husbands in divorce is not enough dead women yet. We are keeping a forum on dead women and the question I ask many times I post new stories is this.
“How many dead women is it going to take before women realise that they can not commit crimes with impunity and men must have the protection of the law?”
The answer so far is “more”.
Well? Men like Jovan Belcher are going to accommodate you.
Peter, thanks for your perspective. It sounds like from your comment that you are angry and frustrated by this topic. That’s understandable. Divorce courts often seem to favor women; that could certainly contribute to why young men are more reluctant to marry. I wonder if the personal experience of young men whose parents have divorced also contributes to this trend. Divorce rips families and people apart; surely experiencing that in one’s own family would make one pause before getting married.
As you mentioned, the Jovan Belcher case is a horrific tragedy. We can only guess what went awry in that situation.
I appreciate your willingness to engage. You may not be aware that on this site, we have agreed to abide by Community Guidelines in our dialogue. This is not to discourage passionate arguments, but to facilitate discussion. I want to hear your input, and I don’t have to delete any of your comments. Here’s a link to the Guidelines for reference: http://www.findinguncommonground.com/community-guidelines-2/
Also my co-blogger Lisen and my point-counterpoint posts from this site got picked up by BlogHer. Here’s the link if you’d like to engage there as well: http://www.blogher.com/point-counterpoint-war-men?from=bhspinner
“A shortage of “marriageable men.””
Surely you mean a shortage of dupes, don’t you?
Hi, Peter. Venker described what was happening as a shortage of “marriageable men.” That’s where the term came from. For the record, I don’t think men are dupes at all.
Fantastic post. When I read the Feminine Mystique in college, I realized that this book was responsible for the exhaustion many women feel today. Today’s women usually work two full-time jobs– homemaker and another job. And who works two full time jobs and still has time left over to devote to one’s marriage (or even, oneself?)? How is this a reasonable expectation to place on someone?
Furthermore, at what point did we decide that a grandoise wedding (avg cost $27,000) was necessary before one could get married? No wonder a class divide is developing between the married and the unmarried.
Thank you, Catherine, for reading and commenting. Women are still wrestling with how to have it all. You probably saw Anne-Marie Slaughter’s article in the Atlantic Magazine entitled “Why Women Still Can’t Have It All” (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/07/why-women-still-cant-have-it-all/309020/). She caused a stir among feminists with that this past summer. Here’s my response if you’re interested: http://everydayepistle.com/2012/07/24/the-lie-of-having-it-all/
And I love that you brought up the exorbitant cost of a modern wedding. Such a good point!
I hadn’t seen the Atlantic’s article but I enjoyed reading it and your reply. Good point about Rosie O’Donnell admitting that she had plenty of money and help to raise her kids and also work full time outside the home. However, as someone with a graduate degree, I like to think that I would do a better job “training up” my own children than someone without my level of education or attachment to them. I sometime wonder where some of these daycare-bound kids get their moral worldview. From other kids? From the daycare workers? “Daycare worker” isn’t exactly considered a position requiring a high level of educational attainment.
Catherine, those are questions all parents wrestle with when deciding what’s best for their families. I know my husband and I have. We recognize not everyone’s situation will look the same; I hope we can respect each other rather than demean stay-at-home over working parent or vice versa. That’s why I think this is such an important conversation to continue.
Catherine,
“How is this a reasonable expectation to place on someone?”
You women are such “victim-a-holics”. You are NEVER responsible for YOUR choices.
When you have grandiose expectations that can not possibly be met? oooohhh–aaahhhh. Someone ELSE must have PLACED THOSE EXPECTATIONS ON ME.
It is NEVER “I chose to create for myself expectations that are too high”….no…you will NEVER hear a western woman say ANYTHING like that!
I am so glad I live in Germany where women are really nice people. Do you know that I told a romanian woman the other day? She asked me just how bad western women are…and I told her how a Ukrainian woman helped me save my life…..I noted to her that western women call her a whore, a gold digger, interested only in my money and passport. I asked her “how evil do women have to be to hate on a woman who helped a man in need just because she is a good woman?”
And this woman knew exactly what I meant. She did not question me at all. She knows how evil women can be…and to hear that western women almost ALL hate on a woman who helped me when I was suicidal? She just shook her head….she really got how evil western women are now.
I mean, really? The majority of western women I tell about the woman who helped me save my life HATE ON HER. And despite never meeting her claim she is a whore and a gold digger…..when the truth is that I have invited her in to my life and she said no because she wants more babies. Really? How hateful can western women be to hate a woman who helped a man save his life ONLY because she helped a man save his life?
I think our culture places unreasonable expectations women AND men. Likewise, women AND men can behave poorly. We are all capable of hate, regardless of whether we live in America or Germany or the Ukraine or elsewhere. I’m sorry you and your friend have experienced hate from Western women. Please know not all American women (or men) think the same. That’s in part why I think Venker wrote her article and why we’re having this discussion in the first place. There are different viewpoints in America on the roles of men and women; thanks for sharing yours here with us!
Let us not forget to factor in no-fault divorce. Men know that women can divorce him at any time, for any reason- or for no reason. If she does, he will invariably be slaughtered financially. If he has kids, great harm will be done to his relationship with them, in most cases.
Contrary to popular suggestion, men aren’t stupid. They talk too. They tell the younger men not to marry and suffer divorce theft. They tell the young men the pitfalls. Men are refusing marriage because its simply a bad deal. We SEE it everywhere. We are not blind. Women with negative attitudes that don’t even know the meaning of the word ‘deference’. If women don’t have to live up to traditional responsibilities, then neither do men. Additionally, since we can get sex and intimacy without marriage or even the slightest excellence of character, that incentive to marry is gone. And children? They aren’t even ours anymore. They are mom’s. Ask any family court judge.
The war that women have fought is over. They WON. They got everything they wanted, and never did the math on the blowback.
Now they want to blame men for that too.
It’s sad for many young women today who had nothing to do with the installation of feminism but will indeed be affected by it. Especially when the people that speak up to say that the Emperor has no clothes, they are vilified like Mrs. Venker.
Feminism isn’t just about equality, its about domination. Men will not fight the “war on men”, however. We will just remove ourselves entirely, especially from the fraud that is modern marriage.
Feminism harms women. It causes terrible suffering. It didn’t liberate them, it discounted them. Now they can’t figure out why nobody wants to invest.
Samuel, thank you for your comment. No-fault divorce is definitely a factor in the “discounting” of women and men, children and family. It pains me to read how you describe the children in the middle as not belonging to their fathers anymore, but now they are “mom’s” by order of “any family court judge.” Fathers are vitally important to children, just as much as mothers are. Divorce, though sometimes necessary, tears people apart.
I agree with you that men aren’t stupid; they get the messages our culture sends them. And I think you’re right that many men will not fight with women, in part because there’s something un-gentlemanly about that. There’s something dishonorable about it. Rather they will simply retreat and remove themselves. Not the result I’m guessing women who want to be married were hoping to see, but again what did we expect?
“Fathers are vitally important to children”
No we aren’t. We are hated on. We are abused. We are rapists. We are paedophiles. We are removed from our children without a blink of any eye.
I tell every young man I meet.
NEVER EVER BE A FATHER. IT IS THE SINGLE MOST STUPID THING YOU CAN DO.
And that is from a man who raised FOUR children so the lads listen to me.
Peter, I’m sorry you feel that way. I know many fathers, including my own husband, who would disagree with you. And I stand by my comment that fathers are vitally important to their children. As a father yourself, you must know that.
I had the misfortune of clicking on the Beyonce video.
That girl is hopping around like a clown declaring how she is single, and thrusting her pelvis at everyone. She is useless, except to encourage crap behavior.
“If you like it you shoulda put a ring on it” ???
What about when you refuse the ring? What about if we “liked it” but we were unconvinced about your ability to be sexually faithful, especially the way you thrust your pelvis at everyone? What if we ‘liked it’ but you didn’t want kids? What if we walked away and didn’t put a ring on it because we found out that you have poor behavior? What if you are single because you suck, but you trumpet around like you wanted to lose every relationship you have ever attempted?
Yeah.
She is a useless clown. Something to be ridiculed, not lusted after or emulated.
Men want virtuous wives.
Maybe that’s why the ring is missing on so many “ladies” fingers.
I would love to see a bunch of fifty-somethings doing a parody of this video, cats and all. Maybe we can change the lyrics some, to explain where Beyonce’s bad attitude really leads.
Samuel, I can tell you didn’t like the video. For the record, I like Beyonce and think she’s very talented. I included the song and video because the lyrics reflect what I think is happening in our culture between women and men: a lot of mixed messages, especially about marriage.
I appreciate your responses, just please keep it clean so your comments don’t get deleted. And I’m not trying to mother you or tell you what to do; Lisen and I set up Community Guidelines and agreed to abide by them when we started this site. We really want people to engage in civil dialogue in order to get their points across. http://www.findinguncommonground.com/community-guidelines-2/
This is quite a thought-provoking post. To me, the fight between men and women is part of the general trend towards hatred of anyone different from oneself. Maybe hatred is too strong — perhaps I mean anger. Hatred and anger are not a good way to go about getting equality, are they? Yet many people seem to think it is.
I do disagree about a minor point: the Target t-shirt. Considering the baseball and soccer ball on the shirt, I think it refers to sports as opposed to cattiness. IMHO.
Good thoughts, Anita. Thank you for reading and commenting.
I realize the t-shirt is supposed to be funny, but as the parent of a boy, I think it’s as inappropriate as if the tables were turned and it was a shirt in the boys’ department reading, “My Skills Make Girls Run.” The feminists would be all over that one, but they are eerily silent when the joke is on boys. Here’s a link to the post I wrote on my blog about the t-shirt: http://everydayepistle.com/2012/07/03/the-mob-addresses-the-feminist-attitude-against-boys/